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March 10, 2010

Comments

Angelo

Very cool.
Nice pick-up.

Paul

This must be audio bandwidth, not IF bandwidth.

brandon

Yeah, the graph is of audio bandwidth. But the IF slider itself does indeed change IF bandwidth, not audio bandwidth. I confirmed this in a separate test by recording an audio sample 10khz in frequency away from my local AM station (1480 is the local, I set the dial to 1490) and applying a 3khz low pass audio filter with gradual cutoff to the wide audio sample and comparing that to a sample recorded with the IF bandwidth set all the way to narrow - the results were totally different, confirming that the slider isn't just the equivalent of a treble control.

Paul

I am pretty sure the IF bandwidth is not continuously tunable. This is a feature which we've just not begun to have in software defined receivers. At best there are multiple IF bandwidths, maybe two or three, and the slider switches between them. Even then, such a selectable IF system must have made this tuner very expensive back when it was introduced (what year is this tuner from?).

One other possibility is that the radio employes IF shift, such as the system in use in the Eton E10. I think this is liklier.

Paul

oops, I meant "is a feature which we've just begun to have", without the "not". Sorry.

brandon

If Jeff is able to upload an .mp3 file to his server, I can post one on here. Maybe you could tell by listening to an audio clip exactly what the slider is doing. In the clip I'll slowly move the slider from wide to narrow on an adjacent channel - this will work better tonight when I have signals on adjacent channels. The T1 was produced in 1982, this was the follow up to that receiver, so probably 1983-1985ish

Paul

Among the best receivers we had circa 1986 was the JRC NRD-525 with two built-in filters (4 and 2 kHz), and two more slots for additional filters you could purchase. It sold for around $1,000. No continuously tunable IF filter. See

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/commrxvr/nrd525.html

and
http://www.dxing.com/rx/nrd515.htm


jeffrey McMahon

I'll try to upload the MP3 file, but I've never done it on my typepad blog before.

Paul

Sony ICF-5900 for $15 - SF bay area:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ele/1636895817.html

brandon

I found a free mp3 server to upload it to.

So anyways, the audio clip is as follows:

In the first 16 seconds, I start with full bandwidth and apply a filter (via computer software) that is the equivalent of turning the treble down and then back up (variable bandpass from 10khz to 3khz then back up)

Then from 0:16 to 0:30 I turn the IF slider down and then back up.

Then from 0:30 to 0:35 and 0:35 to 0:40 I do a direct comparison of audio filter vs IF filter. I think the difference is enough to show that the slider is doing more than just audio filtering because the IF filter definitely removes more adjacent interference than the equivalent audio filter does. The remainder of the clip is just a sample of a local station at full bandwidth to show the high fidelity of this receiver.

http://kiwi6.com/file?id=og0a6bk8u6

Paul

Very interesting. Yes, there is something more than just audio filtering going on here.

Here is the little I could find on the Kenwood Basic T2. The AM section is apparently extremely good:

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/kenwood.html

Kenwood Basic T2: Unlisted in the Orion Bluebook, the quartz-synthesized Basic T2 is a mystery to us, except that it's clearly a far better tuner than the Basic T1. We've just learned that it has Wide and Narrow IF bandwidth settings for FM, as well as an unusual adjustable slider control for variable IF bandwidth on the AM band. It uses Kenwood's "DLLD" (Direct Linear Loop Detector) technology, their name for a PLL detector, that can also be found in the KT-3300D and KT-5020, among others. Our panelist Bob says, "The Basic T2 came after the KT-9XG, which has a very similar, if not exact same, signal meter display. The T2 appears to be the first Kenwood tuner to use the DLLD. This was a big change point for Kenwood, as the KT-9XG still had the Pulse Count Detector." Our contributor Keith lauds the T2's "excellent AM section, very immune to interference/static." The T2 turns up on eBay occasionally and usually sells for $20-65, with a wacky high of $129 in 6/07.

Alain

If you can read the schematic you will see that AM variable IF BW potentiometer in fact allows a selection between normal audio detector output pin13 of the LA1245, and Smeter output pin16 used as an AM detector with a narrow ceramic filter CF6 in its IF path : it is a real clever IF bandwidth selector. Alain

Alain

In addition : this tuner contains 4 FM ceramic filters, but in FM wide mode only 2 are used , plus 2 IF transformers. In FM narrow mode the 4 filters are used: 2 wide and 2 narrow BW, plus one IF transformer. I could not find the datasheets of these filters. Are they constant group delay ? Alain

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